Curse

My Sweet Revenga · Sep 22, 2007, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhu

indeed. there are multiple instances in the bible where the "good guys" are killing "innocents."

"good" and "evil" are relative and determined by the winners. viet cong vs. u.s. military. who was good and who was evil?

One of Pyre Fierceshot's quotes:
"When I was a cub, my grandfather used to light a flame under a moa bird's feet and watch it squawk. If we don't get moving soon, I'll introduce you to him."

If that's not evil I dunno what is... and I have yet to hear or read of anything "good" that the charr have done. So far all they do is burn, torture, and kill. The only possibly good charr is the one you meet with the medly of former enemies in Abaddon's realm, but really those guys were in hell for a reason so....

Juhanah · Sep 22, 2007, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Charr seems more evil because they are being brainwashed by their shamans. I'm pretty sure a new born Charr who is raised in a favorable environment without all the brainwashing of the shamans about false gods and war would be just as good as any other race.
It would be like Tengu and Centaur.. some of them hate Humans but some can tolerate them to a degree.

GW2 is supposed to be something like 200years later if i remember .. A lot of things can happen until then.

HayesA · Sep 22, 2007, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Ahh, yes, it's all relative, right? It's OK to bring down a meteor on a civilian city...

Sorry. I think is most people's mind, killing innocent civilians is evil, no matter what gods you believe in.

I don't believe in ANY gods. But that doesn't mean I dont have morals, and, like some of the other people have said, good/evil are reletive to the person. As is just about everything in this world, except for Sciences, and Math. While some things are universal, most are not. God/Evil are one of the things that are not.

And who exactly are the good, innocent civilains? Are we?

lyra_song · Sep 22, 2007, 02:02 AM // 02:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by My Sweet Revenga

One of Pyre Fierceshot's quotes:
"When I was a cub, my grandfather used to light a flame under a moa bird's feet and watch it squawk. If we don't get moving soon, I'll introduce you to him."

If that's not evil I dunno what is... and I have yet to hear or read of anything "good" that the charr have done. So far all they do is burn, torture, and kill. The only possibly good charr is the one you meet with the medly of former enemies in Abaddon's realm, but really those guys were in hell for a reason so....

I dont see that any more different than eating lobster....you know they get boiled alive right?

draxynnic · Sep 22, 2007, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Well... I'd been considering having a Charr as the inheritor of my (Ascalonian) Warrior. At the very least, it's going to be... interesting... to justify that in my mind...

Incidentally, in reference to another poster... I'm hoping female Charr don't have any cups and, if anything, have some other physical gender marker (possibly explaining why some Charr are hunchbacked while others stand fully upright).

Dark Savior · Sep 22, 2007, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Yes, they are fine. They will fit in perfect for Wammo's.

Who are usually played as hack and slash and your meat shield. They are big and respect only strength. They should be the perfect warrior type class IMO.

I know that they are going to have a very detailed concept lines and very rich history. That should be able to describe more to us in the coming months. I know that PlayNC isn't forth coming with info about them...but I'm sure that they will be a great race to play. To each their own.

holababe · Sep 22, 2007, 02:57 AM // 02:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Ahh, yes, it's all relative, right? It's OK to bring down a meteor on a civilian city...

Sorry. I think is most people's mind, killing innocent civilians is evil, no matter what gods you believe in.

That example doesn't work to show that good and evil are not relative.
Good/evil are hypothetical constructs in that you cannot directly experience them...people demonstrate what their personal values are through their actions.

Therefore it may be 'evil' to some people (even most people) to kill innocent civilians but it's still dependent on what they believe/feel is right/wrong. And judging other people's actions based on your own moral compass is ignorant.

Ensign · Sep 22, 2007, 04:11 AM // 04:11

Charr are evil? They're portrayed as a religious, expansionist military power in game. Nothing in that strikes me as inherently evil. What makes you think they are evil?

Mordakai · Sep 22, 2007, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Charr are evil? They're portrayed as a religious, expansionist military power in game. Nothing in that strikes me as inherently evil. What makes you think they are evil?

Evil in the context of the game.

For example, our Characters are never shown torturing anyone. The Asclonians didn't capture young Charr cubs and force them to fight to the death in arenas for their amusement.

People keep using real world examples, and are missing the point.

Whether or not you believe in good or evil, can you honestly say the Charr are portrayed in a good light? And that Ascalonians are not?

And now Anet wants us to forget all that? Or, do they want us to BE evil?

That's my question.

Sha Noran · Sep 22, 2007, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Now that Anet has decided that Charr are evil, were evil, and always will be evil...

When did they decide that, haha.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Evil in the context of the game.

For example, our Characters are never shown torturing anyone. The Asclonians didn't capture young Charr cubs and force them to fight to the death in arenas for their amusement.

People keep using real world examples, and are missing the point.

Whether or not you believe in good or evil, can you honestly say the Charr are portrayed in a good light? And that Ascalonians are not?

And now Anet wants us to forget all that? Or, do they want us to BE evil?

That's my question.

Mordakai, I'd like to introduce you to a literary device called "point of view". Point of view is used to help ease the reader (viewer, player, etc.) into agreeing with whatever perspective is offered by the protagonist of the story. I certainly recall instances of my character offering NPC enemies the choice between giving up information or death, and I specifically remember Zhed threatening to rip a character limb from limb should he refuse to help you. At the time, from our point of view, it was the just and correct thing to do because we were preventing the end of the world, or something along those lines. From another point of view, it might be seen as completely inhumane.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

The Asclonians didn't capture young Charr cubs and force them to fight to the death in arenas for their amusement.

Well, it didn't show that happening at any point, but honestly that sounds like exactly the type of thing a human in an Ascalonian's position might do.

The whole good/evil debate is marred by fallacies. ITT: Orcs are evil :<

mafia cyborg · Sep 22, 2007, 05:34 AM // 05:34

are the UNDEAD good in wow? don'think so...but ppl still play'em.

Sha Noran · Sep 22, 2007, 05:37 AM // 05:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by mafia cyborg

are the UNDEAD good in wow? don'think so...but ppl still play'em.

That reminds me, if he's not one of the primary antagonists, I have a feeling Palawa Joko could be the race leader of the Undead in GW2. Brace for complaints.

blue.rellik · Sep 22, 2007, 05:38 AM // 05:38

[QUOTE=Mordakai]Evil in the context of the game.

Quote:

For example, our Characters are never shown torturing anyone. The Asclonians didn't capture young Charr cubs and force them to fight to the death in arenas for their amusement.

White Mantle and the Bloodstones much? At least the Charr didn't pretend to be helping everyone

Face it, Ascalon = wammo level fail. If a city is producing such awesome heroes like Gwen, Rurik and Adelbern then burning their country down is a public service.

Quote:

People keep using real world examples, and are missing the point.

Because it's from OUR perspective. From the perspective Japanese that were bombed by America, they would think America are evil which is hardly the case

Quote:

Whether or not you believe in good or evil, can you honestly say the Charr are portrayed in a good light? And that Ascalonians are not?

You discriminate against the entire charr race. Most of them were fooled by the shaman caste. Can you say all of Kryta are as bad as the Mantle because they were fooled by the Mursaat? Or what about Kourna? Can you blame them because of what Varesh sent them to do? Yeah Humans are just as evil

Quote:

And now Anet wants us to forget all that? Or, do they want us to BE evil?

The Charr are no different from any other medieval style race in contrast with real life humans back then. They conquered, murdered, pillaged, raped took prisoners. Only difference is that charr eat people as well.

Archaic · Sep 22, 2007, 05:41 AM // 05:41

If I have to choose from between a Charr, Asura, Sylvari, Human, or Norn(AFAIK), I would probably go Charr.

Cat-people ftw.

Avarre · Sep 22, 2007, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Take this to Lore if you want to discuss it, there is nothing of value to game discussion here.